Is it contagious – the debate continues….


Following on from last weeks post I have to say that I’m loving the debate! Great points from everyone and such a conflict of opinions. Just what I was looking for!

As I said in last weeks blog, I’m not saying poker sites are cheating. I just find it quite coincidental that so many people from our little community are going through pratically the exact same sequence of events…. and no, I don’t think its just players from our forum! After reading the comments thus far, and having a wee think about it all, I’ve came to a conclusion. I think it’s all software related!

No, not that the software has a glitch in it. No, not that the software has been tampered with. I think it’s a case of learning how a site works and playing it to your advantage. Up until a year ago Jetset Poker was a popular site. It shut down after the UIGEA bill went through in the US. This site was well known for the river flushes it produced and people would call all-in bets with a flush draw knowing that they would hit their flush more often than not. That was just how the software operated. People cottoned onto this and played to the software’s ‘failings’.

I think the same applies to every site out there. You have to learn how it operates and exploit the failings in the software. Maybe those of us who have suffered the Abs/Vegas suckout phenomenon have lost sight as to how the sites software works, and we are not taking advantage. Have we became a bit pompous, proclaiming that we are poker players, and we shall not play like a monkey; and it’s against our better judgement (as poker players) to chase to the river? Should we not be taking advantage of the ‘flaws’ in the software of all the sites we play? Even if that means changing our mindset as poker players?

I just get the feeling that we are too proud to admit sometimes, that we think we should be aiming to play the perfect poker game all the time online. Yes, we should be striving to become better all-round poker players, but we should not lose sight, and react to the flaws of online poker. I’m not advocating chasing to the river any chance we get, but there is some instances when maybe we should do it. If we know there’s a good chance of sucking out (because we know how the software operates), and it’s not going to cost too much to call, why don’t we take the gamble? It seems others do it and get away with it so why can’t we do the same?

Maybe some of those we refer to as monkeys aren’t as stupid as they seem. Maybe they are opting to gamble on how the software works as opposed to the unadulterated  stupidity we often label them with.

A different concept on this topic, I’m sure you will agree. I look forward to reading your thoughts on this.


5 Responses to Is it contagious – the debate continues….

  1. Blagger says:

    “It seems others do it and get away with it so why can’t we do the same?” ain’t you learned nuttin yet? .. Monkey-type plays only ever works for Monkeys!

  2. svcmgr says:

    I can’t wait for Lippy’s response to this one!. He is going to be all over this…lol.
    If the site has a “flaw” like Jet Set did with the flushes, then there really isn’t a Random Number Generator then is there? It isn’t random if certain situations happen more frequently than others right?
    I, personally would have a hard time travelling down the “Monkey Road” just to win a $2 SNG. I would not want that type of play to maybe influence my play at other sites or at live games.
    You make a good point though. I haven’t seen a pattern yet like at Jet Set and I have played over 10,000 hands at Abs and Vegas. Maybe I haven’t watched it close enough.
    Sure, I get pissed when I get taken out by the Monkey call but after a few minutes, I chalk it up to “that’s just what happens sometimes”.
    Let me throw this one out there.
    What percentage of Monkey play take outs are from calling a all-in bet vs. playing the hand to the river?
    I think the percentage of calling the all-in is a lot higher than playing the hand through.
    Of the playing the hand through percentage, how many of us has “allowed” the Monkey to catch because we weren’t aggressive enough on the flop and after?
    I think we may need to take some responsibility for allowing the Monkeys to catch. Not all of it mind you, but some for sure.
    I suppose I tend to look at all of this from a “what could I have done better” vs. “look what THEY did to me”. Does that make sense?

    Come on Lippy, let er rip….lol

  3. PinkDog says:

    I have played well over 30,000 hands at abso/vegas (prolly more like 300k) and have yet to notice any type of pattern, and if there was a pattern there, I think someone from our crew would have picked up on it by now.

    Maybe when the UIGEA was passed JetSet knew that the first sites the US would go after would be the corrupt sites so they got wish and turned tail before they got busted. Just a thought.

    Now, just because every time I fold my small pocket pr to a big bet after I don’t hit the flop just to call for and hit my trips on turn or river can’t be blamed on the site. Thats just crappy poker skills and/or bad luck.

    Maybe I should chase every once in awhile when holding a small pair. We all have that happen to us, but only the jackasses and monkey players are still in it, so they get paid off. Food for thought.

    As for percentages of monkey play take outs, I would have to say:

    1. I win more all-ins when I call monkeys than pots that I play to the river because I won’t call anyones all-in without the hand to make the call. We all do the same there, AA KK QQ and sometimes as little as 99 or 88, but we know we are the best at that moment, and if we are wrong, most of the time it was still the right thing to do because of stack size or knowing the jackass is a monkey.

    2. I am not lucky when chasing hands to the river, well I said lucky but I mean the percentages always win out with me. If my odds are 4.5 to 1, by god I will win 1 out of 4.5, but it may take 20,000 hands for the odds to work out. We all go through times of invincibility and make every flush and every straight we play and so the odds have to become even again and the only way that can happen is to not catch your cards and lose the hand.

    Too many times I have had 20+ outs with 1 card to come and I don’t hit. If you are an out-counter like me then you undoubtedly have gone through the same bad times and bad ass beats that I have, but we all have had the horseshoe so it all works out in the end.

    Well, I been typing here so long I’m getting a wee bit intoxicated and I’m having a hard time seeing the screen.

    Must be time to kick some monkey ass then so as always ….

    See Ya on the Felt

  4. PinkDog says:

    Here lippy lippy lippy, com on boy

  5. zitlips says:

    LOL..ya little asses…dangle that
    Well ya know damn well I’m gonna bite like a monkey with an ace rag off suit. After all I practically initiated all of this, and ya know I love to stir up chit once and awhile just for fun. Or just because of boredom. Whatever.

    Overall, I think we can all agree or at the very least speculate, that Jetset could be a candidate for some tom foolery. Realizing this I think we should surmise that it HAS happened. The RNG myth is realized. The fact that jetset was a little too obvious might support the theory. It may also support “Murphy’s Law”, meaning, If it has happened, it will happen again, and if it hasn’t, then it will.
    Different software programmers (or better ones) may not be as obvious as jetset.

    As far as not being aggressive enough to get suked out on,…yep…thats usually the case for all of us. But remember, monkeys don’t care about that, so that point is moot.

    If we don’t see a pattern it’s just better disguised. Jetset wasn’t nearly as concealed. Thus the programmers weren’t nearly as good.
    Algorithyms are just more elongated so a pattern is not obvious.

    HaHa…there’s your response ya pukes…hehe

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